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THERESE NELSON

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ROTUNDA: Kagan must recuse from Obamacare case - Washington Times

Seeded on Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:48 PM EST
Read ArticleArticle Source: The Washington Times
politics, white-house, supreme-court, u-s-news, catholic, obamacare, top-news, justice-kagan, recuse
Seeded by Therese Nelson
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"Legal ethics guru finds cause to doubt her independence

The attorney general’s belated release of various emails has raised the question of whether former Solicitor General Elena Kagan should disqualify herself from the case that will decide the constitutionality of Obamacare. Many people think she has already made up her mind, and for good reason. First, a little background.

During her confirmation hearings, Sen. Tom Coburn, Oklahoma Republican, asked Ms. Kagan whether Congress could require us to eat three vegetables and three fruits every day. That would make us healthier and also would affect commerce and medical costs, but it is not a commercial act. Ms. Kagan could have said that she would not respond to that question because it is the pivotal issue in Obamacare - the “individual mandate” that requires people to buy health insurance. Or she could have said that precedents say that Congress cannot regulate something that affects commerce unless it is a commercial act. Instead, she said, “I think it would be wrong to strike down” such laws. In effect, she decided the individual mandate issue.

At her hearings, she said she would recuse herself from any case in which she “officially formally approved something” or “played a substantial role.” But that is not the test that the federal statute imposes. It requires Justice Kagan to disqualify herself if she, as a federal employee (solicitor general) “participated as counsel” or as an “adviser,” or she “expressed an opinion concerning the merits of the particular case in controversy.”

The government (after much prodding) has released emails that raise serious questions whether she, in fact, expressed any opinion regarding the constitutionality of Obamacare. We know that her deputy solicitor general emailed her about the issue, and she replied that she wanted to talk over the phone (with no paper trail). We know that emails also showed that her deputy solicitor general at that time believed Ms. Kagan “definitely” wanted her office involved in the administration’s defense against those legal challenges. The deputy solicitor general was the public face involved in the defense while she stayed in the background, but that does not excuse complying with the statute.

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  • Public Discussion (25)
Therese Nelson

The government (after much prodding) has released emails that raise serious questions whether she, in fact, expressed any opinion regarding the constitutionality of Obamacare. We know that her deputy solicitor general emailed her about the issue, and she replied that she wanted to talk over the phone (with no paper trail). We know that emails also showed that her deputy solicitor general at that time believed Ms. Kagan “definitely” wanted her office involved in the administration’s defense against those legal challenges. The deputy solicitor general was the public face involved in the defense while she stayed in the background, but that does not excuse complying with the statute.

  • 5 votes
Reply#1 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:18 PM EST
Olyman

Good luck with this one I'm affraid. She recused herself from the AZ hearings for two reasons 1: because it was the right thing to do and 2: because now the left can say she would recuse herself if she deemed it necessary as witnessed by her decision to sit out the AZ hearings. She won't recuse herself on this one, it's too important to the left and Obama's re-election.

Sometimes you have to fold on smaller pots so you can go all in on the big ones.

  • 3 votes
#1.1 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:31 PM EST
my-pockets-r-mt

her deputy solicitor general emailed her about the issue, and she replied that she wanted to talk over the phone

Recuse yourself, already. I think we the people deserve an unbiased answer and not have to always wonder if the fix was already in.

  • 3 votes
#1.2 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:33 PM EST
Therese Nelson

Dear Olyman,

Yes, I have heard of the diffused argument before, that Kagan recused herself from the AZ hearings to appease her left/liberal Obama base. You are probably correct.

What is so ridiculous is that I am not sure what or how many cases should you recuse yourself from?

If she has had personal biased intervention in her past on ANY case she should recuse herself.

She has been an been a person in the White House with President Clinton and has advised on Abortion materials and disseminated info that would damage the Pro Abortion Clinton Administration. Hillary was first lady and had also promoted a government health care plan.

Yes, that is why Obama appointed Kagan to the court, she had absolutely NO Bench experience? What?

What a travesty.

  • 5 votes
#1.3 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:47 PM EST
Therese Nelson

Dear my pockets,

Yes, Kagan should recuse herself from Obamacare. This is egregious.

To deflect that she had recused herself from the AZ case is irrelevant to the law, if she had direct intervention on any side of this case or bias she should not be voting on the outcome. Prejudice.

Kagan knows this, amount of cases has absolutely no bearing on her being able to be unbiased.

  • 3 votes
#1.4 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:52 PM EST
Don Overton

She can recuse herself as soon as Thomas does.

  • 2 votes
#1.5 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:52 PM EST
Robert in Ohio

Don

Would you agree that there is a difference between

Perceived bias and pre-formulation of opinion

and

Demonstrated bias through participation in the process and demonstrated opinion through statements made

  • 1 vote
#1.6 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:57 PM EST
Don Overton

No there is no perceived bias there is bias. Thomas should be impeached. You can't say that about Kagan.

    #1.7 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:39 PM EST
    Robert in Ohio

    Don

    First no one has said a thing about Kagan being impeached only that she should perhaps recuse herself from the case(s) regarding the ACA.

    Your opinion is that Justice Thomas should be impeached, apparently not a sufficient number in the government agree with you.

    And as you often do, you ignored the question.

    Care to answer it?

    • 2 votes
    #1.8 - Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:05 AM EST
    Don Overton

    And as you often do, you ignored the question.

    I answered it very well. Read it.

      #1.9 - Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:20 PM EST
      Robert in Ohio

      Don

      Of course you did

      Thanks

        #1.10 - Sat Dec 17, 2011 1:31 PM EST
        Reply
        RatPoison

        I've not made up my mind about this topic yet. There is certainly a lot of valid points and a clear representation for the perspective as to why she should recuse herself. The flipside to it, or the argument I often see against this is first, 'if she has to recuse herself, then Justice Thomas should as well (because of his wife)'. The second argument is that we select and approve judges because of their impartial, balanced, objective stances when reviewing law (as written) to the issue contesting it.

        I am leaning towards the opinion of her needing to recuse herself because the evidence of her participation and her opinion regarding the topic are already fairly well known.

        In the end... if my understanding is correct, nobody can force Justice Kagan to recuse herself... she must do it voluntarily. Is that correct?

        • 1 vote
        Reply#2 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:37 PM EST
        Robert in Ohio

        R P

        You are correct it is solely Justice Kagan's decision as to whether she participates in the case or not.

        • 1 vote
        #2.1 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:52 PM EST
        Therese Nelson

        Dear rat,

        I think that Kagan had promoted herself as somone who just hung around the White House with Clinton and with Obama and really had no personal interaction on these matters.

        Her job description and these emails are evidence she did have personal intervention and bias, she would not put something in writing but she was working on it?

        She laughed and joked through congressional questions, that does not change she had a job to do or why was she in the White House in the first place? She is no air head, no defense she did not know it....

        • 2 votes
        #2.2 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:57 PM EST
        Therese Nelson

        The definitions and regs for "recusal" from Wikipedia

        Dear Robert,

        Often justices or judges will recuse themselves sua sponte (on their own motion), recognizing that facts leading to their disqualification are present. However, where such facts exist, a party to the case may suggest recusal. Generally, each judge is the arbiter of a motion for the judge's recusal, which is addressed to the judge's conscience and discretion. However, where lower courts are concerned, an erroneous refusal to recuse in a clear case can be reviewed on appeal or, under extreme circumstances, by a petition for a writ of prohibition.

        Article in part and link

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judicial_disqualification#Recusal_in_the_United_States

        In the United States, the term "recusal" is used most often with respect to court proceedings. Two sections of Title 28 of the United States Code (the Judicial Code) provide standards for judicial disqualification or recusal. Section 455, captioned "Disqualification of justice, judge, or magistrate judge," provides that a federal judge "shall disqualify himself in any proceeding in which his impartiality might reasonably be questioned." The same section also provides that a judge is disqualified "where he has a personal bias or prejudice concerning a party, or personal knowledge of disputed evidentiary facts concerning the proceeding"; when the judge has previously served as a lawyer or witness concerning the same case or has expressed an opinion concerning its outcome; or when the judge or a member of his or her immediate family has a financial interest in the outcome of the proceeding.

        28 U.S.C. sec. 144, captioned "Bias or prejudice of judge," provides that under circumstances, when a party to a case in a United States District Court files a "timely and sufficient Motion that the judge before whom the matter is pending has a personal bias or prejudice either against him or in favor of an adverse party," the case shall be transferred to another judge.

        The general rule is that to warrant recusal, a judge's expression of an opinion about the merits of a case or familiarity with the facts or the parties must have originated in a source outside the case itself. This is referred to in the United States as the "extra-judicial source rule" and was recognized as a general presumption, although not an invariable one, in the 1994 U.S. Supreme Court decision in Liteky v. United States.

        • 1 vote
        #2.3 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:07 PM EST
        Therese Nelson

        Dear Robert,

        You can see by my references and links, Kagan SHOULD recuse herself in the Obamacare case.

        In the United States, the term "recusal" is used most often with respect to court proceedings. Two sections of Title 28 of the United States Code (the Judicial Code) provide standards for judicial disqualification or recusal. Section 455, captioned "Disqualification of justice, judge, or magistrate judge," provides that a federal judge "shall disqualify himself in any proceeding in which his impartiality might reasonably be questioned." The same section also provides that a judge is disqualified "where he has a personal bias or prejudice concerning a party, or personal knowledge of disputed evidentiary facts concerning the proceeding"; when the judge has previously served as a lawyer or witness concerning the same case or has expressed an opinion concerning its outcome; or when the judge or a member of his or her immediate family has a financial interest in the outcome of the proceeding.

        The Congress had already spoke to her of her personal cooperation in Obamacare.

        • 1 vote
        #2.4 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:12 PM EST
        Robert in Ohio

        Theresa

        I understand clearly

        Thanks for the feedback

        • 1 vote
        #2.5 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:45 PM EST
        Reply
        Robert in Ohio

        Therese

        The final line of the article is the key point IMHO

        Justice Kaganshould recuse herself to avoid the appearance of impropriety.

        It is abundantly clear that Justice Kagan participated in the formulation of a legal strategy to defend the individual mandate and that she had made up her mind about prior to assuming the SCOTUS bench.

        Interesting that the administration is trying to avoid this information coming to light

        Judges and Justices are supposed to police themselves, it will be interesting to see how her personal ethics play out

        Thanks for hte article

        • 3 votes
        Reply#3 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 2:51 PM EST
        T. Gracchus

        Why is it that only Democratically appointed justices need to recuse themselves when there is a perceived conflict of interest?

          Reply#4 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:41 PM EST
          Robert in Ohio

          T Gracchus

          It is up to Justice Kagan, if she thinks she shuld recuse herself, she will if she does not thnk so she will not.

          Pretty simple

          • 1 vote
          #4.1 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 3:43 PM EST
          Reply
          lifeisgood43

          Just as soon as Thoman and Scaila rescue themselves for attending a dinner of the law firm that is in charge of getting the law thrown out. Also Thomas's wife has been working for a group that wants the law to be thrown out. After all Mrs. Thomas received 500,000 from a front group

          • 1 vote
          Reply#5 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:08 PM EST
          Therese Nelson

          Dear life,

          Soooo, if someone's wife thinks a certain way the husband is held accountable?

          Wow, that would not stand up in court.

          There are many men and women who are married who have different political opinions.

          That would not hold up in court, the law states the "judge" not maybe if his wife had some personal activity.

          • 3 votes
          #5.1 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:16 PM EST
          Therese Nelson

          Dear life,

          Well, with your reasoning, Atty Gen Holder who had volunteered or Pro Bono defense for known Terrorists in his history?

          Now, Holder is our Atty Gen or prosecutor and Justice for US?

          • 2 votes
          #5.2 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:25 PM EST
          Patriot 8888

          Those are peripheral involvements, not direct.

          Per the DOJ Website:

          The task of the Office of the Solicitor General is to supervise and conduct government litigation in the United States Supreme Court. Virtually all such litigation is channeled through the Office of the Solicitor General and is actively conducted by the Office. The United States is involved in approximately two-thirds of all the cases the U.S. Supreme Court decides on the merits each year

          http://www.justice.gov/osg/

          Kagan was confirmed in August 2010 to the Supreme Court.

          Lawsuits against Obamacare started springing up almost immediately after passage in March of 2010. The first Class Action Lawsuit was filed in April 2010.

          Is it credible to believe that the lawsuits would not catch the attention of the then Solicitor General? That the DOJ did not perform What If scenarios regarding the potential for BO's signature legislation to end up in the Supreme Court? Whether the Commerce Clause would have any legal basis?

          Maybe if I was born yesterday. (sarc).

          • 2 votes
          #5.3 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:27 PM EST
          Therese Nelson

          Atty Gen Eric Holder defense of Terrorists + the Pro Bono work of his firm,they are all left/liberal causes?

          Articles in part and link

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covington_%26_Burling

          Partner Eric Holder in 2007 defended Chiquita International Brands against lawsuits brought by relatives of people slain by terrorists and paramilitia belonging to the United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia, which Chiquita paid for protection.[11][12] Holder had previously helped Chiquita negotiate a felony plea bargain, accepted by U.S. District Judge Royce Lamberth, in a criminal prosecution by the federal government for one count of supporting a designated terrorist organization. The plea involved a fine of $25 million USD, also entailing 5 years probation. Chiquita became the first major U.S. corporation to be convicted of financing terrorism. After the settlement, U.S. Assistant Attorney Jonathan Malis said the $1.7 million in payments "fueled violence" and "paid for weapons and ammunition to kill innocent people." Holder stressed that Chiquita had asked the Department of Justice in 2003 if the payments should be stopped.[13]

          The firm’s recent pro bono matters include:

          • Preparing an amicus brief on behalf of a number of social scientists in the Cook v. Rumsfeld case challenging the military’s don't ask, don't tell policy
          • Filing an amicus brief in the United States Supreme Court on behalf of the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) in support of the Planned Parenthood challenge of the Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act of 2003
          • Supporting the District of Columbia in District of Columbia v. Heller which argues that the District's ban on the possession of handguns and its storage provisions for other firearms in the home is not implicated by the Second Amendment[21]
          • Primary pro bono counsel for TeachAIDS, a nonprofit which has developed a new method for global HIV/AIDS prevention education

          [edit] Representation of Guantanamo Bay inmates

          Attorneys at Covington & Burling have been Guantanamo Bay attorneys for Ahmed al-Ghailani[22] fifteen Yemenis, one Pakistani, and one Algerian being held at Guantanamo Bay. The firm obtained favorable rulings that detainees have rights under the Fifth Amendment and the Geneva Conventions.[23] The court ruled in March 2005 that the government could not transfer detainees from Guantanamo Bay to foreign custody without first giving the prisoners a chance to challenge the move in court.

          According to The American Lawyer's annual pro bono survey, Covington lawyers spent 3,022 hours on Guantánamo litigation in 2007, "the firm's largest pro bono project that year". Lawyers from the firm who have become administration officials have been advised by ethics officials to recuse themselves in matters involving detainees represented by their former firms, but not from policy issues where they were not personally and substantially involved. Lanny Breuer is one of those who has had to recuse on from some matters since leaving the firm for a government position. Covington also co-authored one of three petitioners' briefs filed in Boumediene v. Bush, "and was responsible for several detainee victories" in the U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit. "At least one high-ranking appointee played a key role in advancing detainees' rights," but they did not participate in litigation over the Guantanamo Bay prison itself.[24]

          • 1 vote
          #5.4 - Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:40 PM EST
          Reply
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